We talk to our Australian correspondent Lyle Shelton about Australia’s struggle to define what is a woman (a case currently being appealed in the Federal Court); the case of Dr Jereth Kok who has been deregistered as a medical doctor for social media posts; and the judicial activism which allowed a march on Sydney Harbour Bridge at the weekend.
Show script auto-generated by Descript app:
Bob: Well, in this episode of my blog, we head over to Australia. I’ve been watching what’s going on. There’s a bit of a culture war going on as we’ve got in New Zealand, but some very interesting developments, a medical professional being shut down for simply Soc uh, posting on his social media, his opinion.
We’ve got the giggle versus tickle case, which, um, the Aussies can’t figure out what is a woman. And some judicial activism around a protest over the Sydney Harbor Bridge. Let’s go and check out with our Australian correspondent Lyle Shelter.
Well, always good to have you on the show. Uh, let’s get straight into it because I think Australia is quickly following Canada down the bread basket of chaos. Chaos. Um, uh, so let’s start with the, the kind of, the first one that’s been settled, and it’s this case of Dr. Kok, who medical professional never had a complaint about him, about his, um, doctoring, you know, services prescribing.
Just a great doctor. He’s got in trouble for posting stuff on social media, including hosting Babylon Bee stuff. I mean, where does that put you and me? But let’s deal with Jareth. What? What’s really happened here?
Lyle: Look, uh, a what I would call a, a vexatious, uh, complaint by activists was made against him, um, because of his social media posting on Facebook.
Uh, he was a family doctor, a gp. Um, this has been running for about six or so years. Uh, Jereth would probably, um, admit that some of his comments were a little unvarnished. And, and that’s fine. That’s not a hanging offense. Um, look, you know, I wouldn’t have always delicately worded everything that I’ve put on social media either, but stuff around, you know, the true definition of marriage, as you say, some, uh, reposting of the Babylon Bee, which is satirical anyway, he’s been up on essentially hate speech, uh, sort of charges, um, through the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.
Well, well, sort of going back before that, the, um, the medical board struck him off as a lost. Ability professionally to to practice. And then, um, the Human Rights Law Alliance, um, which is a, uh, a legal firm that they, they actually, my lawyers as well in a case I’m involved in, um, they have been defending Jart as he sought to have his deregistration overturned through the Victorian civil administrative tribunal or tribunal in Victoria.
Now, he lost that case, uh, just a couple of weeks ago, and that’s, that’s really sent shockwaves through. Christian community and anyone who’s thinking about the issue of free speech.
Bob: Okay. I mean, I had a look at some of his posts. You’re right. Some of them are pretty strong. I mean, I think the worst I saw was that he said that abortionists are, are butchers killing the unborn child, uh, which is fairly strong language.
But I mean, that was probably the worst I saw of it.
Lyle: Yeah. No one should lose their job over that, Bob. Um, yeah, look, you know, we should always try and be respectful in, um, the way we engage on social media, but, uh, what he has said there, you could make a case, um, if, if you look at how you know abortion is performed, um, well that’s not in inaccurate description of some methods of abortion, and certainly no one should lose their livelihood over something like that.
Bob: Well, exactly. I mean, we’ve got groups here in New Zealand calling anybody who. Think that only women can get pregnant, calling them Nazis and fascists and white supremacists. So it seems the labeling can come from one side but not the other. And I was interested to see that this was based on just one anonymous complaint.
Uh, vexatious, I think is the word you used. Um, and yet it’s, I mean, as you have said, from your own experience, it’s the process that’s the killer, isn’t it?
Lyle: Well it is, but in, in Jarret’s case, um, the process, uh, has actually succeeded in, uh, ensuring that he’s no longer allowed to practice as a medical doctor again.
And, you know, I think most people would realize doctors perform a, a vital role in our community, and they are well remunerated and rightly so. Uh, but this, uh, young doctor now is not able to, um, feed his family. Uh. In the profession that he, you know, went to great lengths to, to train for. And this is a huge injustice, Bob.
And um, again, it’s one of the things that makes me ashamed to be an Australian, that, uh, we’re losing these basic issues of free speech at a great rate of knots in this country.
Bob: Because I know you’ve, you were, you know, the head of the Australian Christian lobby. Um, you’re now doing the political party, the family first.
Uh, but with the Australian Christian lobby, they were campaigning against the conversion therapy laws as we all were. And I think he was calling that out. And basically they were arguing that it’d hurt their feelings because he was calling it out. I mean, this, this hurt he feelings complaint, uh, we have it in New Zealand, but for a medical professional to lose their license, especially when the complaint isn’t about the way he practices or how good his practice is.
Lyle: Yeah, he’s never had a complaint from any of his patients. Um, this has nothing to do with his, um. Professionalism a, he’s, um. And this is the basis of our flawed anti-discrimination, anti vilification laws that we have in every state and territory here in Australia. We also have a federal version of them.
I’m sure you’ve got similar sort of laws in New Zealand. Um, the activists have, you know, spent decades setting up. Um, this legal infrastructure and it’s designed to protect, um, certain groups, um, who have hurt feelings and uh, and of course it has a chilling effect on freedom of speech. And these are terrible laws.
They’ve gotta be reformed. And one of my great beefs in life is that, um, we don’t even have conservative politicians willing to take this on and to restore freedom of speech in our country. Mm.
Bob: Uh, you are speaking close to the heart because you yourself have faced the same types of complaints. You’ve, uh, done hurt feelings towards drag queens by saying they’re not appropriate role models for children, which I fully concur with you on.
Uh, that process is still going, isn’t it?
Lyle: Yeah, it is. Um, I, I’m now into my sixth year of litigation. Uh, it’s cost over half a million dollars. Um, thankfully I’ve had the privilege of being crowdfunded by, um, other freedom loving Australians and, and as well as the, uh, human Rights Law Alliance. Um, you’ve got, I think, the ETHOS Network, if I’ve got that right, in New Zealand.
Similar Law Firm Alliance.
Bob: Ethos Alliance.
Lyle: Yeah. Ethos Alliance. My apologies. Um, look, unfortunately, these law firms are needed to help people like myself and, uh, um. Currently going through the appeal process. We had three days of, uh, in court in March of this year, um, with the drag queens and their lawyers.
Um, and I’m now waiting for a judge to, um, to publish his judgment. But that could be any day now. But, um, there’s no timeframe on it. And as I say, it’s been six years or already. And the process is definitely the punishment. Um, and, you know, I just don’t think any of this passes the pub test. Again, the media don’t report this stuff, and I think if ordinary people knew that you could be dragged through courts for, you know, criticizing drag queen story time, uh, most, most people wouldn’t have a bar of that.
Bob: Okay. Um, and I bet the other side is government funded, doing quite well.
Lyle: They, they do, they get hundreds of thousands of dollars, um, in taxpayer money for the, um, uh, LGBT law service, uh, in Brisbane, which, which are, are their lawyers.
Bob: Incredible. Okay. And, and, um, look, while we’re on it, Kirralie Smith, uh, is speaking at our conference in a couple of weeks for ’em on the family.
Yeah. And, um, she too is going through the process simply because she doesn’t want biological men playing in girls soccer teams.
Lyle: Yeah, look, uh, your, your viewers and there, you know, should get along to your conference to hear Kirralie live. She’s a good friend of mine. Uh, she called out a biological male playing soccer, uh, you know, female competition here in Sydney.
And, uh, that biological male has taken out apprehended violence orders against her, has also lodged a complaint, um, with, uh, the courts. And, um, she, uh, is through a protracted legal process now, and it, it’s just nonsense. It’s ridiculous. And again, we’re having to crowdfund. To pay her legal funds. But again, this is un Australian.
Um, it goes against all principles of common sense.
Bob: Okay, this is probably not the time for me to mention that Lyle thinks that everyone who plays soccer is a girl. That’s probably not the time to do this. Well, that’s
Lyle: true. And, and I think Kirralie’s case, you know, prove if a bloke has one anyway, we shouldn’t go there.
Alright.
Bob: Uh, second serious case and, uh, it’s the Tickle versus Giggle. So on the left is a biological man who thinks he’s a woman and he wants to go into a woman’s only app. Which was set up, it’s called Giggle, and it was set up by Sal Grover. Simon Connor my colleague has interviewed Sal Grover, or she is brave the way she is just standing, but basic.
So basically there is a court case going on. The first decision basically said in Australia that a woman is whoever identifies as a woman. That’s now an appeal. And that’s happening in, so what is it? Is it your, um, federal or federal court?
Lyle: No, the, the federal, federal court. So the, the full bench of the federal court is sit sitting this week in Sydney.
Uh, in fact, today, um, is day three of, um, of, uh, this hearing. Uh, so she lost her case in the federal court. Um, I think it was late last year, um, where Roxanne tickle the biological male. Think your viewers will be able to work out which is which in that image. Um, Roxanne Tickle, um, sued Sal Grover, uh, because of her Giggle Smartphone application, which was a, a woman’s only space.
Um, Sal said, no, you can’t be in that. The federal court said, well, sex is changeable. The reason it said that is because in 2013 when we had our first female Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, um, the Sex Discrimination Act was amended, uh, to allow gender identity to be a protected attribute. And what that means is that essentially a man can decide, he wants to identify as a woman and receive all the protections under law.
And so it’s under that Sex Discrimination Act that Roxanne Tickle has sued. Um. Sal Grover is appealing and, uh, she’s before the full bench of the federal court this week. And, uh, it’s just a joke. Um, what the submissions that have been put forward by Tickle Side are, are looking for massive damages because Sal Grover called Roxanne Tickle, a man in media interviews.
And, um, Bob, I’m gonna risk, um, having damages awarded, uh, you know, brought against me because I’m gonna say that Roxanne Tickle is a man and we should be free to say that in Australia is a man. Yeah.
Bob: And, and I actually read in the case, um, I mean, it’s slightly ironic that it was a female prime minister that seeded ground on what is a woman.
I mean, that, that’s I ironic in itself. But I did read in the case, think what
Lyle: happened here is, um, I, I, I think. Most of the politicians didn’t really know what was going on. They were doing the bidding of the LGBTQA Plus political movement. And, uh, when this went through our parliament, it went through the Australian Senate on the voices, uh, the Liberal party, the conservatives, uh, also voted for this.
Um, so, you know, it’s, it’s just a comedy of errors. It should be, uh, fixed, but no one has. The will or the courage to take on the rainbow political lobby and to, um, amend the Sex Discrimination Act to put it back the way it should be so that, uh, a woman is what a woman is.
Bob: Incredible. And, and just look, just before we move on from this one, I did read that apparently in the previous case, um, there was an image shown, um, or some, some candle that was shown that was, um, a about, uh, gig, about tickle the, the biological dude. And Sal Grover laughed and she got fined $10,000. Really?
Lyle: Correct? Yes, absolutely. Um, so during that court case, uh, an image of a scented candle, which was part of the crowdfunding for Sal Grover’s case, um, it was um, cent candle. Um, and if I can say this on a family show, um. The, the scent was sweaty balls.
Um, and obviously it was a bit of a spoof and a bit of a play on biological males trying to appropriate women’s genders. And, um, that was shown to her in the court and she laughed as, as I would too. Um, and I would. And, um, so, so the judge, um, you know, find her $10,000 for laughing at Sweating falls, scented candles.
Unbelievable. Because that’s how you know that you, you’re not a woman apparently, if you, you’re offended by that scent. Uh, I’m sorry. This is, uh, and it’s just, if you don’t laugh, you’d cry.
Bob: How many people have laughed in court? It just seems ridiculous. Yeah. Anyway, uh, okay. Um, look, just, um, finally, last weekend, we all saw the images.
Sydney Harbor Bridge shut down for a protest. Look, if they wanna protest and if they want to believe a lot of the propaganda coming out from a terrorist group, which is ironic that, um, suddenly the media rely on terrorist groups for so-called legitimate information. Um, if they want to do that and protest well, so be it.
But what I found interesting was that, uh, it went to a, a courtroom and the judge said, no, you can shut down the whole of the city. You can shut down the bridge. I just get the impression that if this had been a march for Jesus, that same judge would’ve said, no. Of course you can’t march on the Harbor Bridge.
Yeah. Was this judicial activism at, at its worst.
Lyle: Look, it seems to me that it was Bob. Um, look, the police, um, and you know, the, we’ve got a Labour government here in New South Wales. They’re probably a little bit more sympathetic to the so-called pro-Palestinian cause. But, um, they deemed that it probably wasn’t a great thing from a safety point of view.
And um, also from a traffic management point of view, no one was disputing their right to hold a protest, to hold a demonstration somewhere. Um, that’s, that’s a right to free speech. But, um, as you rightly point out, you know, if, if family first wanted to have a march for, um, families across the Harbor Bridge, um, I’m sure no chance wouldn’t, uh, be given permission.
So there’s double standard there. That’s not, and I think it’s very dangerous too, when you’ve got the courts overriding, you know, an elected government, um, you know, the, the Parliament, um, should be allowed to, you know, decide what what’s in or out here. So long as they’re not suppressing free speech, free speech wasn’t being suppressed.
It was a case of where they were wanted to exercise that free speech.
Bob: To his credit ex, uh, prime Minister Tony Abbott, I think I saw was, was calling it out. Have there been any other political leaders brave enough to call out this inconsistency?
Lyle: Look? Not that I’m aware of. Um, I think Tony’s statement was the clearest and the strongest.
Bob: Mm. Okay. Um, are you worried about where Australia’s heading at the moment? I mean, there’s been a bit of a cultural tipping point around the world. I mean, Trump has certainly pushed back and it seems like there’s been some. Mm-hmm. Uh, center right and right wing governments winning in Europe, but um, Canada and Australia really seem to be racing to the bottom.
Does it feel like that?
Lyle: Yeah, it does. Bob, I’m, I’m deeply concerned about our country. And look, I think, you know, we’ve got, um, uh, you know, Jacinda Ardern in the lodge just wearing pants basically. I, I mean, that’s how radical, uh, the Albanese government is. I think a lot of Australians haven’t woken up to that because.
The Liberal party, liberal National Party Coalition was very weak, um, and lacking courage at the last election. So people simply haven’t heard the counter argument, and so they’ve stuck with the devil. They know I, it’s not out of any great affection towards Albanese. I mean, his primary vote is the lowest, uh, the labor.
Voters been, it’s in the very low thirties liberal party primary voters of similar areas. So it’s not like he’s got this overwhelming mandate. Um, there’s a massive, you know, minor party vote out on the center. Right? And, and on the extreme left. So you know about, you know, 40% of people aren’t, um, uh, uh, sorry, 30% of people.
30, 40% of people are not voting for the major party. So, uh, we’re drifting as a nation and, um, because people are apathetic, probably New Zealand is a similar, um, he’s getting away with an extreme radical left. Position, you know, essentially supporting Hamas, um, you know, supporting the idea of women with penises, you, you name it all the woke agenda is just having a field day in this country.
Yeah. Um, I think people like, like New Zealanders did, they’ll work them out, but, um, it, we just haven’t had that sort of moment where we realize where, like you guys, when you realize that was no good and, you know, she saw the writing on the wall. I, I, I predict that’s what will happen here in the next two to three years.
Bob: Okay, well, I’m not sure if I’m gonna invite you back on Lyle because we’ve misgendered a dude. Um, we’ve laughed at a joke that would’ve got us a $10,000 fine in court and, um. Things are not looking. Oh, and also we’ve mentioned body parts, so I think McBlog is gonna be canceled, uh, by the broadcasting standards authority, if we had any broadcasting standards.
Anyway, uh, Lyle good to talk to you and um, we will keep in touch. Oh, I did just wanna ask you just the Jereth Kok case, is he appealing?
Lyle: Uh, yes, I believe he is. Um, I hope so. Yeah, I did read that through the HRA, so yeah. Yeah. Keep him in your prayers.
Bob: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well really appreciate your time. Be we’ll be in touch.
Lyle: Pleasure. Thanks, Bob.
